Don't have lot of experience with NINA, so can't really judge even though I keep reading positive reviews.
Used it once to correct the tilt on my epsilon 160ed via the Hocus Focus plugin which was very helpful.
Coming back to Voyager, I have been personally extremely satisfied with it for more than two years:
- The most reliable automation program that I have used so far. Over the last two years, I probably ran into issues maybe 5 times - nothing bad at all. Either way, whenever something go south, I get a notification via telegram..... so I can react quite fast.
- The Advanced version is absolutely incredible with many options. There are so many options that it would be difficult to list them all
 . In fact, I feel sometimes a bit "lazy" since I have nothing to do at all. As per my dragscript and my settings, Voyager operates every single tasks by itself. I just have to go through my subs, nothing else to do. - The autofocus workflow is exceptional. It is reliable, never failed once ! My stars are perfectly "focused".
- Leo, the owner, has been always very helpful and very reactive to my emails. Whatever the day (Monday to Sunday), you can expect to have an answer from him. So, nothing to complain from my side, on the contrary.
- Leo has been always very open to new suggestions, new features / options. I have seen so many new features implemented based on the wish and expectations of users.
With regards to the last point (support), I may understand, and accept, that we do not share all the same opinions. Nevertheless, I have been through the whole discussion, and I have the feeling that some people are getting a bit too emotional. If some of you decided to turn their back to Voyager, so bit, and we shall respect it. However, what has been said about the owner being not helpful and whatever, isn't necessarily something shared by the many users all over the world. That's my two cents.
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Rafael Sampaio:
Scott Denning:
Rafael Sampaio:
Scott Denning:
I used Voyager for over a year, but switched to NINA and never looked back.
Better scripting and automation, more stable/fewer bugs/fewer crashes.
Far more elegant interface.
And DRAMATICALLY better user support/customer service.
That’s interesting, never heard about instability issues with Voyager. What kind of problems did you have? And what automation/scripting features did you miss in Voyager?
Infrequent crashes, without any error messages. That's never happened to me in NINA in 2 years since I quit Voyager.
Also a weird bug with camera cooling that would take upward of 30 minutes during a sequence but less than 5 minutes manually. And then when I asked for help on the Voyager forum the developer posted in all caps "NOT THIS AGAIN!" and denied there was a problem.
I did use Voyager a lot, and once I got used to it, it worked fine. Over the years I have also used TheSkyX, CCD Autopilot, MaximDL, SGP, and KStars/Ekos. Voyager was notably more stable for me than KStars, and though I got fluent with DragScript it's really very clunky.
Being developed by just the one grumpy guy, the interface and many aspects of the system are idiosyncratic to the point of user-hostility.
I find NINA with its large community of users and developers to be head and shoulders simpler, more reliable, with a clean and modern interface and simply outstanding user support.
The scripting and automation (especially with the newer Target Scheduler) is extremely powerful. You can just set up a target list with prioritization, moon avoidance, custom horizons, etc and TS will gather data as appropriate running 24/7. I realize that for an extra charge Voyager Advance will do something like this too, but in NINA the functionality is free and gets better with time as the community provides input.
Thanks! But how you get support from NINA? I thought that, as a free software, no one was under any obligation to solve any issue we might have. So, with NINA, do you have formal support, or the spontaneous help of the community?
They are under no obligation at all to provide any support.
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Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Rafael Sampaio:
Scott Denning:
Rafael Sampaio:
Scott Denning:
I used Voyager for over a year, but switched to NINA and never looked back.
Better scripting and automation, more stable/fewer bugs/fewer crashes.
Far more elegant interface.
And DRAMATICALLY better user support/customer service.
That’s interesting, never heard about instability issues with Voyager. What kind of problems did you have? And what automation/scripting features did you miss in Voyager?
Infrequent crashes, without any error messages. That's never happened to me in NINA in 2 years since I quit Voyager.
Also a weird bug with camera cooling that would take upward of 30 minutes during a sequence but less than 5 minutes manually. And then when I asked for help on the Voyager forum the developer posted in all caps "NOT THIS AGAIN!" and denied there was a problem.
I did use Voyager a lot, and once I got used to it, it worked fine. Over the years I have also used TheSkyX, CCD Autopilot, MaximDL, SGP, and KStars/Ekos. Voyager was notably more stable for me than KStars, and though I got fluent with DragScript it's really very clunky.
Being developed by just the one grumpy guy, the interface and many aspects of the system are idiosyncratic to the point of user-hostility.
I find NINA with its large community of users and developers to be head and shoulders simpler, more reliable, with a clean and modern interface and simply outstanding user support.
The scripting and automation (especially with the newer Target Scheduler) is extremely powerful. You can just set up a target list with prioritization, moon avoidance, custom horizons, etc and TS will gather data as appropriate running 24/7. I realize that for an extra charge Voyager Advance will do something like this too, but in NINA the functionality is free and gets better with time as the community provides input.
Thanks! But how you get support from NINA? I thought that, as a free software, no one was under any obligation to solve any issue we might have. So, with NINA, do you have formal support, or the spontaneous help of the community?
They are under no obligation at all to provide any support.
*** Exactly, legally speaking -you are on your own, take it on your own risk ***
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Right. For my purposes that's a non starter. My system runs 24/7/365 remotely and I need support that I can rely on. I have a second system headed to Chile, and it'll also be on Voyager Advanced.
My current system in New Mexico has ran for coming up on 9 months without a single Voyager related issue at all.
Highly recommended.
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I've been using NINA for several years. The NINA developers are incredibly active on their Discord forum, and deal with dozens of support requests a day, often in quasi real time. I personally have never had to wait longer than 6 hours to have one of the developers respond to a request for help.
They aren't going to log on to your system and set things up for you, but if there is a real issue, they will jump on it and fix it quickly.
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Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Right. For my purposes that's a non starter. My system runs 24/7/365 remotely and I need support that I can rely on. I have a second system headed to Chile, and it'll also be on Voyager Advanced.
My current system in New Mexico has ran for coming up on 9 months without a single Voyager related issue at all.
Highly recommended.
*** I had a fight in the similar forum thread on NINA crash, some people claimed that I am computer illiterate fool knowing nothing in computer and astrophotography, NINA is perfect, cannot crash, even if crashed-it is MS fault or your own etc.etc…. Nobody is perfect, no program is free of bugs and serious programming errors…. I had my experience with SIPS, NINA and going in different way, both software are unreliable, sorry, this is my personal opinion. ***
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Adel Kildeev:
Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Right. For my purposes that's a non starter. My system runs 24/7/365 remotely and I need support that I can rely on. I have a second system headed to Chile, and it'll also be on Voyager Advanced.
My current system in New Mexico has ran for coming up on 9 months without a single Voyager related issue at all.
Highly recommended.
*** I had a fight in the similar forum thread on NINA crash, some people claimed that I am computer illiterate fool knowing nothing in computer and astrophotography, NINA is perfect, cannot crash, even if crashed-it is MS fault or your own etc.etc…. Nobody is perfect, no program is free of bugs and serious programming errors…. I had my experience with SIPS, NINA and going in different way, both software are unreliable, sorry, this is my personal opinion. ***
I have a lengthy discussion with some of their team on their Discord server (from about 4-5 years ago) saved in screenshots it was so terrible. After that, I found Voyager and never looked back. It does everything I want, and if I need support Leo is available via his support line to immediately help.
If there's something I actually need to use that support line for, I don't have 6 hours to waste. That's way too much downtime from a business standpoint.
For backyard use, mobile use etc, that's probably not a problem for people to wait and hope their issue is resolved at all. I don't really have that time.
Bill
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Adel Kildeev:
*** Exactly, legally speaking -you are on your own, take it on your own risk ***
I am not sure what this means. Pretty much any software is "take it at your own risk", meaning are you going to take Leo to court if Voyager crashed on you? Or if you receive a rude response? I have not seen the Voyager terms and conditions, but I am sure that, given all the complexity and interactions that go into this, there is a limit to the level of assistance Leo can provide and a limit to what he guarantees. I doubt very much he guarantees he will make things work perfectly for you. This is not, after all, the software that manages cloud storage for a major bank! At some point, if the problem is with some interaction specific to your rig, you are on your own with both programs. As an example, PI is paid software, but people have problems all the time! Do they take Juan to court if they are not happy with the support they receive? The only question you should be asking is how does this support work in the real world and how stable is the program in the real world. From what I am reading, there are good and bad points with both software.
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Adel Kildeev:
*** I had a fight in the similar forum thread on NINA crash, some people claimed that I am computer illiterate fool knowing nothing in computer and astrophotography, NINA is perfect, cannot crash, even if crashed-it is MS fault or your own etc.etc…. Nobody is perfect, no program is free of bugs and serious programming errors…. I had my experience with SIPS, NINA and going in different way, both software are unreliable, sorry, this is my personal opinion. ***
But you said it yourself, you are basically a computer illiterate. And you are under no compulsion what-so-ever to use NINA.
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andrea tasselli:
But you said it yourself, you are basically a computer illiterate. And you are under no compulsion what-so-ever to use NINA.
The way I see it, you have a chance of getting condescending or downright rude support from either developer(s) (and also a chance of good support). With NINA, the software is free. With Voyager, you pay. Philosophically, if I pay for something, I have a greater expectation of courteous support than if I don't. I think this is reasonable.
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That's quite correct, Arun. Sadly this is not always the case for astro-related paid software (PI, wink wink).
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Aygen:
Don't have lot of experience with NINA, so can't really judge even though I keep reading positive reviews.
Used it once to correct the tilt on my epsilon 160ed via the Hocus Focus plugin which was very helpful.
Coming back to Voyager, I have been personally extremely satisfied with it for more than two years:
- The most reliable automation program that I have used so far. Over the last two years, I probably ran into issues maybe 5 times - nothing bad at all. Either way, whenever something go south, I get a notification via telegram..... so I can react quite fast.
- The Advanced version is absolutely incredible with many options. There are so many options that it would be difficult to list them all . In fact, I feel sometimes a bit "lazy" since I have nothing to do at all. As per my dragscript and my settings, Voyager operates every single tasks by itself. I just have to go through my subs, nothing else to do.
- The autofocus workflow is exceptional. It is reliable, never failed once ! My stars are perfectly "focused".
- Leo, the owner, has been always very helpful and very reactive to my emails. Whatever the day (Monday to Sunday), you can expect to have an answer from him. So, nothing to complain from my side, on the contrary.
- Leo has been always very open to new suggestions, new features / options. I have seen so many new features implemented based on the wish and expectations of users.
With regards to the last point (support), I may understand, and accept, that we do not share all the same opinions. Nevertheless, I have been through the whole discussion, and I have the feeling that some people are getting a bit too emotional. If some of you decided to turn their back to Voyager, so bit, and we shall respect it. However, what has been said about the owner being not helpful and whatever, isn't necessarily something shared by the many users all over the world. That's my two cents.
I'm glad you had that experience. I did not, and many others didn't either.
Leo basically called me dumb when I asked some questions that I did not know how to solve - which is why I asked them in the first place.
Surprisingly to everyone, that does evoke an emotional reaction. And I really need to point this out again: this is something others have experienced and said as well.
To your other points, I do agree - if voyager works it's nice. The autofocus routine is very reliable. If it's not working you run the risk of being told you're dumb, doing it wrong without being offered help how to do it right or that all integration problems are not voyager problems.
Look, end users and clients *can be dumb* and maybe often are, but the way to deal with that is provide help and guidance not stonewall.
Given the (yearly) price for support, this is a problem for many users.
I wish leonardo would have someone professional support and take some lessons from product managers about understanding user needs.
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This personal stuff is probably not needed to have a discussion about which is better. This thread isn't about what the owner of Voyager should do with his life.
The other side, those devs said far worse things than calling someone dumb. I'm not getting into exacts, because it isn't relevant to the topic of discussion here. Acting like they are perfect angels is naive though.
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Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
This personal stuff is probably not needed to have a discussion about which is better. This thread isn't about what the owner of Voyager should do with his life.
The other side, those devs said far worse things than calling someone dumb. I'm not getting into exacts, because it isn't relevant to the topic of discussion here. Acting like they are perfect angels is naive though.
I disagree - part of the value of commercial software is getting support and help with the product. No one talked about what the owner should do with his life, the points of contention is the level of support provided for the money paid.
And fwiw I have never said anyone are perfect angels (and I haven't seen anyone else say that either). On the contrary, I think the experience of getting support in the community discord is just as relevant.
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Johannes Rußek:
I wish leonardo would have someone professional support and take some lessons from product managers about understanding user needs.
Did you not just say this? This isn't relevant at all. We get it, you are upset he called you a name. Burning down the Internet because of it and repeatedly posting about it here, isn't going to change anything.
I've had Leo drop a new build to fix a lower priority bug within hours. I've had him troubleshoot and resolve issues for me in the past in no time at all. In my (and many others that run extremely expensive systems) experience, support isn't an issue with Voyager at all.
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Wow, from a nice and useful thread, it derailed into a cloudynight like discussion full of crap and useless emotional comments. I am out of here! Enjoy 20 more useless comments.
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Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Johannes Rußek:
I wish leonardo would have someone professional support and take some lessons from product managers about understanding user needs.
Did you not just say this? This isn't relevant at all. We get it, you are upset he called you a name. Burning down the Internet because of it and repeatedly posting about it here, isn't going to change anything.
I've had Leo drop a new build to fix a lower priority bug within hours. I've had him troubleshoot and resolve issues for me in the past in no time at all. In my (and many others that run extremely expensive systems) experience, support isn't an issue with Voyager at all.
This is about the product, not what to do with his life. I am glad you're having a good experience with the product and support, but I did want to share mine and others as well.
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Respectfully - the user experience when one asks for support is absolutely part of the decision making process when one buys a product or service.
As an example, if I was in the market for a car or fridge, and I was told that there was a chance the service center or support line would call me "dumb" if I called or stopped by with a question, I might rethink my choice. It is the same with both Voyager and NINA.
Similarly, a suggestion that the developer of paid software be more in tune with user needs is not a personal attack on him, in the same way as saying GM needs to improve its service is not a personal attack on Mary Barra.
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Johannes Rußek:
Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Johannes Rußek:
I wish leonardo would have someone professional support and take some lessons from product managers about understanding user needs.
Did you not just say this? This isn't relevant at all. We get it, you are upset he called you a name. Burning down the Internet because of it and repeatedly posting about it here, isn't going to change anything.
I've had Leo drop a new build to fix a lower priority bug within hours. I've had him troubleshoot and resolve issues for me in the past in no time at all. In my (and many others that run extremely expensive systems) experience, support isn't an issue with Voyager at all.
This is about the product, not what to do with his life. I am glad you're having a good experience with the product and support, but I did want to share mine and others as well.
Going on and on about the same thing isn't useful. You gave your story. We don't need to continue to hear it every page.
As others here have stated as well, support just isn't a problem with Voyager. You have support baked into the licensing agreement. There is no obligation for the NINA team to provide any support at all. So if support really is what you want to talk about, Voyager has the better arrangement because of the license agreement between the user and Voyager.
That's what the product does. It's this not clear?
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Going on and on about the same thing isn't useful. You gave your story. We don't need to continue to hear it every page.
As others here have stated as well, support just isn't a problem with Voyager.
The reason it's being repeated is that while me and others share our own experience as just that, you keep repeating yours as the absolute truth.
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Arun H:
Respectfully - the user experience when one asks for support is absolutely part of the decision making process when one buys a product or service.
As an example, if I was in the market for a car or fridge, and I was told that there was a chance the service center or support line would call me "dumb" if I called or stopped by with a question, I might rethink my choice. It is the same with both Voyager and NINA.
Similarly, a suggestion that the developer of paid software be more in tune with user needs is not a personal attack on him, in the same way as saying GM needs to improve its service is not a personal attack on Mary Barra.
Many users can testify, like myself, that they received excellent support from Leo. Others did in this thread prior to this thread turning into a Leo hate fest.
Saying Leo should get professional help is definitely a personal comment where I come from.
I feel like this thread has ran it's stretch of usefulness.
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Johannes Rußek:
Going on and on about the same thing isn't useful. You gave your story. We don't need to continue to hear it every page.
As others here have stated as well, support just isn't a problem with Voyager.
The reason it's being repeated is that while me and others share our own experience as just that, you keep repeating yours as the absolute truth.
Yes, it is absolutely truthful that I had a great experience from a support perspective from Voyagers team. I feel that's a fairly good thing to comment about in a thread that's in a sub forum specifically about Voyager.
🤣
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Bill - reading this thread, I see comments that are complementary and otherwise to both software programs. There are people that passionately like or dislike both programs. It is a function of the experience they've had. I think all these viewpoints are valid but useful to take in context.
It is the same as with reviews of products we purchase on the internet. There are good experiences and bad experiences.
One makes a decision based on the sum total of experiences, and ones own personal preferences.
In the case of NINA - yes, I agree, we aren't paying for it, so there is legally not an obligation for support. None the less, it seems many people have good experiences with it, and of course, bad.
In the case of Voyager, as you point out, there is a user agreement that binds. I think there could be a useful discussion to be had on what exactly this agreement obligates Leo to do, and the limitations of that support. May be that is a productive direction to take now that we have established that good and bad experiences can be had with either program. Certainly it would be helpful to me.
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andrea tasselli:
Adel Kildeev:
*** I had a fight in the similar forum thread on NINA crash, some people claimed that I am computer illiterate fool knowing nothing in computer and astrophotography, NINA is perfect, cannot crash, even if crashed-it is MS fault or your own etc.etc…. Nobody is perfect, no program is free of bugs and serious programming errors…. I had my experience with SIPS, NINA and going in different way, both software are unreliable, sorry, this is my personal opinion. ***
But you said it yourself, you are basically a computer illiterate. And you are under no compulsion what-so-ever to use NINA.
*** People making unsupported allegations in public chats may well end up in the courtroom oe expelled from the site -I warn you personally ***
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@Arun H
That definitely can be discussed, likely best in it's own thread though, IMO. I'm sure many have checked out of this one due to folks turning it way too personal against Leo.
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4.88
11.02
2.41
0.00
12.28
1.51
